tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793782800729950147.post4363033914464435571..comments2024-03-26T21:29:07.190-07:00Comments on Rejoice, and be exceeding glad...: Ten Problems With Using Ordinance CrawlersJames Tannerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02989059644120454647noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793782800729950147.post-15239690972902703022019-09-26T06:27:01.507-07:002019-09-26T06:27:01.507-07:00I agree with your observations. But under the new ...I agree with your observations. But under the new rules, those names reserved by the young missionary would now have been released to the shared temple list. You may want to read the updated post https://rejoiceandbeexceedingglad.blogspot.com/2019/08/reserved-ordinances-expiration.htmlJames Tannerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02989059644120454647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793782800729950147.post-18639874643592376662019-09-25T15:36:59.747-07:002019-09-25T15:36:59.747-07:00I agree with most of the above comments, especiall...I agree with most of the above comments, especially about the personal rewards of finding out about the people, where they lived and worked, children who died young, etc. I also try not to throw water on people using web crawlers and their excitement, but I do counsel them to not use names from the 1600's or earlier as those are most certainly duplicates that the computer can't recognize. Also discourage them from using names with no sources unless they are willing to dig in and provide sources.<br />But the big problem I see with these programs are that they are so easy that some people get huge temple files so big that they or their families can't possible do all the ordinances. I recently had a young man in the ward who put 2,300 names on his list, then left on a mission. That locks up those names from access of others searching common lines. Putting them in "Share" used to be a good idea, but now it has gotten so big that those names, especially for males, make take years to be done, which also locks them up from related people getting to do them.PhilHalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07218327649022866242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793782800729950147.post-45405477078735312522018-03-03T05:33:03.946-08:002018-03-03T05:33:03.946-08:00After using a "web crawler" to examine m...After using a "web crawler" to examine my tree on Family Search... I see that some of James' points are VERY valid! Several of the names I found were duplicates {needed to be merged... not have temple work done} Or in TWO cases, it was an added spouse asking for sealing work... when that spouse was never married to the one it was attached to. <br /><br />His most valid point it #6. "There is no emotional connection to a person who is only known by a line of unfamiliar relatives."<br /><br />Isn't THIS the most valid reason for doing Family History?? I "get" that temple work is important, but having your heart "turned" is an experience EACH OF US needs to have happen to us... and not just ONCE, but over and over... and the result of that is to WANT their temple work done. Not just place their names in the que and "get er done". That wasn't the design of our Father in Heaven... he wants us to know our people... like he wants us to KNOW Him!<br /><br />Web crawler programs can be very helpful IF they further your research and cause you to look at each one more carefully... but finding a name and taking it straight to the temple is a cheap imitation of what the REAL experience is about.Cindy K. Smith-Thredgoldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13704990414553601920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793782800729950147.post-32933054349286848992018-01-31T12:18:01.810-08:002018-01-31T12:18:01.810-08:00"If someone wishes to learn how to research, ..."If someone wishes to learn how to research, all the better. I just don’t see that happening on a large scale."<br /><br />In that case you don't see genealogy happening on a large scale. You MUST learn to research if you're going to do proper genealogy. The reason I say you must learn to research is that if you don't learn to research then one of two things will happen:<br /><br />1. You won't make any substantive progress and you will come up against what you consider to be "brick walls" which someone who knows proper research techniques will likely be able to go through with little to no problems. If this happens then you will get frustrated and stop attempting to do genealogy.<br />2. You will appear to make substantive progress, but in reality what you will be doing is filling the Familysearch family tree or your own private tree with junk and nonsense. If this happens then others will get frustrated with you and might stop doing genealogy.<br /><br />To my mind outcome two is the far worse option as it causes others more work to sort out the junk and nonsense and potentially causes frustration amongst those who actually know what they're doing.<br /><br />I'm not saying that learning to research is a massive task. I'm not saying that learning to research involves a lot of archival visits. I believe that I know how to do research properly, and I've only ever been to actual archives a few times. To me learning to do basic research properly involves the following:<br /><br />1. Learning how to apply the rules of logic and deduction to situations;<br />2. In the modern world learning how to effectively search computer databases;<br />3. Learning that you need to apply geographical and historical context to your work;<br />4. Learning little tricks like what the most common ways something is mis-spelt or mis-transcribed or mis-read;<br /><br />Learning numbers 1 and 3 will help to avoid the vast majority of junk information that plagues genealogy. It will mean that no longer will a series of children in a "family" in the late 18th century show Boston, Boston, Boston and Boston for the christening places, with Lincolnshire, Massachusetts, Yorkshire and Eure, Normandy (yes there really is a place called Boston in Normandy) as the jurisdictions of those various Bostons.<br /><br />Those four steps are not hard, and yet they are taken by so few people. Indeed step 4 is an optional extra that makes you vastly more effective since it means you will be able to think laterally and work out what mistakes might have been made with the names of your ancestors.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05555471831028752100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793782800729950147.post-24234749249064159702018-01-30T09:15:00.603-08:002018-01-30T09:15:00.603-08:00No, I am not directing the police reference to you...No, I am not directing the police reference to you at all - but just the term I use lately in the overall birds eye view of what I even see myself doing. Family History is multi-faceted and I think our goal should be inclusion of everyone that is trying to get involved. If someone uses an app and goes to the temple, so be it. If someone wishes to learn how to research, all the better. I just don’t see that happening on a large scale. Everyone’s journey is different. Family History should be fun (and I’ve always seen it as such) and I see my role now a little differently in that I need to approach it in a way that could possibly draw more people in. That’s what these new Discovery Centers are all about. Getting people connected to their families and in the process, making eternal differences – and having fun!<br /><br />And no, there's no retirement in your future. :)Diane Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13009734060993413317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793782800729950147.post-54772301479027904662018-01-30T03:00:08.575-08:002018-01-30T03:00:08.575-08:00If they did continue extraction, maybe I could ret...If they did continue extraction, maybe I could retire from genealogy and do something else after 36 years. James Tannerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02989059644120454647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793782800729950147.post-42849289000230449872018-01-30T02:59:16.385-08:002018-01-30T02:59:16.385-08:00I hope I am not coming across as a Family History ...I hope I am not coming across as a Family History policeman. If I am, I will rethink the whole process. But I still have the same opinion about the programs. I thought that the idea of family history was to find our ancestors? Yes, we need help in doing all the work we are creating, but if we are going to take any random name why not just continue the extraction program?James Tannerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02989059644120454647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793782800729950147.post-33212595226617346272018-01-29T19:31:43.274-08:002018-01-29T19:31:43.274-08:00I have to say that I've had quite the about-fa...I have to say that I've had quite the about-face in regards to this topic. So here goes my most likely, long explanation. I sat through a Sunday meeting where the youth presented enthusiastically the benefits of using one of these ‘ordinance crawler’ apps. I sat there with my nose turned up, but in the process witnessed many people in the audience downloading the app on their phones and getting quite excited about it. That same week I decided to go show and teach my high school granddaughter more about FS Family Tree and in the process, she showed me the latest, greatest ‘ordinance crawler’ app that they had been using in their ward. I decided to take a deep breath and look closer at her results. I was surprised as most were from her non-Pioneer lines, with surnames that I mostly recognized. I went into FamilySearch to examine closer and they were valid ordinances. I’m not saying that this would be everyone’s experience, but it was mine. My granddaughter at this point has no interest in attaching records and cleaning up person pages, but she is interested in ‘finding family names’. No longer are great-grandma or grandpa’s ordinances available to do, or even their siblings and parents. Closer family temple work began in the mid 80’s and wrapped up in the last few years. I doubt my grandkids would be emotionally connected even if they were available, but they do think it’s pretty cool to do names in the family lines and ‘view the relationship’. <br />Several other recent experiences, which I will spare you the details, have led me to the thought that I am not the ‘Family History police’ and my role is to be encouraging to anyone no matter how small or large their Family History efforts are! Every effort should be applauded. I spend an inordinate amount of time on FamilySearch and will continue to do so, because that is what I love to do. Frankly, that’s probably one of the reason’s my granddaughter’s ‘ordinance crawler’ app worked this well - but I am for people going to the temple and no effort should be made to feel ‘less than’. My accountant told me he had no interest in Family History, but in the next breath he said he was the #1 indexer in his stake! And he’s also the Bishop of his ward. This research stuff can be so intimidating by many and we need to exercise a whole lot restraint sometimes and not become Family History police. End of rant. :)Diane Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13009734060993413317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793782800729950147.post-53511091133890271892018-01-29T15:27:08.977-08:002018-01-29T15:27:08.977-08:00AMEN!AMEN!Amy Archibaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15068623403901287165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793782800729950147.post-83942560820231196382018-01-29T15:22:22.995-08:002018-01-29T15:22:22.995-08:00I cringe whenever I hear these programs being prom...I cringe whenever I hear these programs being promoted as "all you have to do to take a name to the temple" by local leaders with little or no experience.Grandpa Landmeierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18397287163921539683noreply@blogger.com